Perry Boyle - MITS Capital - Accelerating Ukrainian Defence Technology
In this episode, we sit down with Perry Boyle, founder of MITS Capital, to explore the rapidly evolving defence innovation ecosystem emerging from Ukraine.
With a growing portfolio of 21 companies, MITS Capital is an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defence technologies.
We discuss how defence innovation can be funded, scaled and delivered at speed, the pioneering uncrewed ground systems they’re seeing and supporting, resilient communications, and how connecting global capital with companies is helping shape the future of modern warfare.
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Production, Design & Artwork: HIATUS ↗ The Defence Design & Communications Agency
Find Out More: https://mits.capital
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00:00:01 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Hi, welcome to the Future Frontiers podcast from Millilux.io.
00:00:05 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
In this episode, we sit down with Perry Boyle, founder of Mits Capital, to explore the rapidly evolving defence innovation ecosystem emerging from Ukraine.
00:00:12 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
With a growing portfolio of 21 companies, Mits Capital is an investment group with offices in Kiev and New York that's focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defence technologies.
00:00:21 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
We discuss how defence innovation can be funded, scaled and delivered at speed, the pioneering uncrewed ground systems they're seeing and supporting, resilient communications, and how
00:00:30 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
connecting global capital with companies helping shape the future of modern warfare.
00:00:41 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Hey Perry, thank you so much for joining us on the Mililux Future Frontiers podcast.
00:00:46 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I realize your time is very precious at the moment when you're working with a lot of these cool defence companies.
00:00:49 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So to kick us off, please could you give us a really concise one minute introduction to yourself?
00:00:55 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So Perry Boyle, the CEO and co-founder of Mits Capital in Kyiv, Ukraine.
00:01:01 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
We are the largest defense technology investment group in Ukraine.
00:01:05 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And my background was on Wall Street.
00:01:07 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I knew nothing about Ukraine prior to the full-scale invasion, but seeing Ukrainians stand up to fight for what are inherently not just American values, but democratic values, I knew that I had to be part of this.
00:01:23 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So I got involved
00:01:25 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
immediately after the full-scale invasion.
00:01:27 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
One of the things which I like to put out there on the Defence Innovation Podcast, actually, I think is that defence is always made stronger by people who've not been in defence growing up.
00:01:35 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I'm a military veteran, so I spent 12 years in the British military.
00:01:38 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
And I've seen firsthand how a lot of those in the service can be quite close-minded at times.
00:01:43 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So actually I think some of the best innovations come from outside of the sector, which is why I always like to talk to people who don't have a military background yet are working very much visibly in defence.
00:01:52 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I think I saw you at an event in London earlier this year and I was like, I definitely want to get Perry onto the podcast for the range of experiences which you'll bring to the party.
00:02:01 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Apparently I'm not military material.
00:02:03 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I was rejected by the US Navy at 18.
00:02:06 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I was rejected by the International Legion in Ukraine.
00:02:10 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I've been rejected by the US Army.
00:02:12 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So apparently they don't want me as a war fighter.
00:02:16 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So I qualify as somebody who is not
00:02:20 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
knowledgeable about defence.
00:02:23 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I think having worked with a few of those, I think it's for the best, actually.
00:02:27 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I think some of the experiences didn't necessarily lead to the most interesting kind of lifestyles, but I want to get your take on NATO and Europe's rearming efforts at the moment.
00:02:37 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Yes, so it's very complex, very frustrating, but I think NATO nations do not use their defence budgets for defence.
00:02:50 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
They use them for economic stimulation, for job creation, for vote buying.
00:02:55 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And they're not shy.
00:02:56 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
They're very upfront about that.
00:03:00 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And this leads to gross misallocation of capital.
00:03:04 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Just incredible waste of money.
00:03:07 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And if you stood back and you look at Europe from an objective historical perspective, you would say that Europe is rearming to fight World War I.
00:03:19 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
not to fight Russia, but to fight each other.
00:03:22 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Okay?
00:03:23 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Because there's duplicative, everybody makes a fighter plane, everybody makes a howitzer, everybody makes an APC.
00:03:32 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
There's no benefits of integration of militaries, very little.
00:03:38 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And my favorite one now is, Greece is now buying its air shields from Israel explicitly
00:03:49 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
to defend itself against Turkey, its NATO ally, right?
00:03:55 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So, we talk about Europe as if it's one integrated system, and it's really not.
00:04:06 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And then when you think about NATO, what's the purpose of NATO?
00:04:08 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
NATO was founded to keep Russia out of Europe, right?
00:04:13 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's objectively failed.
00:04:16 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Okay, it's objectively failed in that
00:04:19 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
The autocracy, what I think of as the autocratic nexus of China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, they've been invading Europe for years, but just not kinetically, not with boots on the ground, right?
00:04:34 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So they've been running a gray war for years that NATO has no tools to defend against.
00:04:43 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And certainly on the misinformation campaigns and the radicalization.
00:04:47 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So we just saw in Poland the other day, a Polish guy who belongs to a Russian paid for social club in Poland, beating the living daylights out of two Ukrainians in Poland, right?
00:05:04 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I don't think the average Polish person is like that.
00:05:09 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But Russia has figured out how to radicalize, if you will, certain elements within Poland to be anti-Ukrainian, anti-European, anti-NATO by using misinformation and bribes.
00:05:27 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And what does Poland do about this?
00:05:30 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I don't think they have any tools in the tool chest.
00:05:33 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And I don't think they certainly don't get any help for this from being part of NATO.
00:05:38 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah, fascinating.
00:05:39 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
There's a couple of...
00:05:41 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Yeah, I'm just going to say, I just don't see NATO as fit for purpose.
00:05:45 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's truly set up to fight the last war, and that's not what's happening.
00:05:52 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And how many countries are in NATO right now?
00:05:55 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
31 or something.
00:05:58 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
28, that's what I did.
00:05:59 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
28, okay, so 28
00:06:01 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
They don't share the same threats.
00:06:05 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
They don't share the same interests.
00:06:08 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So if you live in Spain, why are you scared of Russia?
00:06:12 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
You're not scared of Russia.
00:06:14 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Russia doesn't want to invade Spain.
00:06:16 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
The Spaniards love Russians.
00:06:18 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
They come to Marbella.
00:06:18 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
They spend 50 EUR on a sandwich.
00:06:21 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Who wouldn't love Russians, right?
00:06:22 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
They spend a lot of money there.
00:06:24 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But if you live in a frontline country where the Eurasian political philosophy that dominates the Russian thinking
00:06:31 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
has said we are going to invade there, it's not if, it's when and how, then you need to work together with the other frontline countries.
00:06:43 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Because the defense industrial base is West.
00:06:46 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
of the threat.
00:06:47 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
The defense industrial base is in Germany.
00:06:50 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's in France.
00:06:51 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's in the UK.
00:06:53 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's not in Finland.
00:06:54 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's not in Denmark.
00:06:56 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's not even in Poland, right?
00:06:58 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So the biggest defense industrial base in the front line is Ukraine by far.
00:07:04 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And what we're going to need to see eventually if people are going to keep Russia out of Europe is a frontline alliance
00:07:13 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
that integrates its militaries, that integrates its defense industrial bases to have a unified defense against the Russian threat.
00:07:26 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
That's a lot to ask.
00:07:29 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So what I'm trying to do is I've got two major companies
00:07:36 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
We have Mits Capital and Mits Industries.
00:07:40 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And Mits Capital, the goal for Mits Capital is to get Russia out of Ukraine.
00:07:46 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And we are not a private military group, like we're just, we're an investment group, but we use capital and we try and direct foreign capital into Ukraine to invest in the things that the war fighters tell us will help them in that mission.
00:08:03 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So that's Mitz Capital.
00:08:04 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And then Mitz Industries is a Danish company with Ukrainian operations.
00:08:11 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And that's our push to integrate Ukraine into the defense of Europe and Europe's defense architecture.
00:08:21 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So we're just private people.
00:08:26 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
We're not government.
00:08:27 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
We have nothing to do with any government.
00:08:29 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
We have nothing to do with any politicians.
00:08:31 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But this is a geopolitical threat.
00:08:35 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
We want to protect democracy.
00:08:37 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
This is our way.
00:08:39 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
This is how we fight.
00:08:42 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Real quick, if you want to hear when new episodes and articles are released, be sure to sign up to our newsletter at the Mililux website or find a link in the shirts below.
00:08:49 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
But now, back to the episode.
00:08:53 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah, fascinating.
00:08:54 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
But there's two big things that you touched on there, which are really interesting.
00:08:57 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
We've covered on a few podcasts before, and that is things like the defence investment.
00:09:05 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
We obviously do a lot of deep diving across NATO and across the kind of defence innovation.
00:09:10 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
We do see what we could term as kind of smoke and mirrors when it comes to defence spending, where defence is invested into kind of roads infrastructure, electricity pylons, general architecture, the whole
00:09:23 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
country and kind of region needs and that's it's lumped under defence defence investing, for the sake of there could be 4 tonne vehicles or artillery pieces being moved across them and therefore the reason reason for investment is because they need to kind of strengthen up road and
00:09:41 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
infrastructure, which is a contentious subject in our view and it sounds like something that you share also as well.
00:09:49 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
The other one I wanted to address was the operating into the grey zone under the threshold of conventional warfare.
00:09:55 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
That's something we've been following quite closely as well.
00:09:58 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
We've had a few
00:10:01 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
experts on the podcast from the intelligence services and organisations like that who've been saying the same thing essentially, that there's operations going on below the threshold of active conflicts that do constitute a real threat which NATO needs to take more seriously.
00:10:17 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
And I think in some ways NATO, I agree, NATO was set up for something like a World War I, World War II conventional warfare where you can gauge
00:10:27 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
conflict hostilities based on troop movements, on artillery pieces, on helicopters, on tangible things.
00:10:35 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Whereas actually when you've got an aggressor who is fighting an intangible conflict, you have to change the way you operate or change the way that you quantify those hostilities.
00:10:47 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I come from it from both a military police perspective in terms of the legalities of gathering evidence, of proving
00:10:54 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
things that are hard to quantify.
00:10:58 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
But then also as a marine officer, I look at things and I say, okay, something has to be done about this in terms of if you want to stay on the front foot and protecting, you have to, not necessarily use the same tactics or conventions as the aggressor, but you have to bring it out of the shadows and put it into the limelight so everyone can see and agree that it is
00:11:21 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
this is not acceptable.
00:11:22 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
This is not an acceptable way of doing things.
00:11:24 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
And that's the challenges I can see of raising activities.
00:11:30 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So you've raised two important issues.
00:11:32 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
One is infrastructure and using defense funds for infrastructure.
00:11:35 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And the second is, you know, essentially how is the future of warfare evolving and how can NATO militaries adapt to that, right?
00:11:45 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So the infrastructure one's pretty easy.
00:11:47 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
There are a lot of infrastructure investments that need to be made in Europe for the defense of Europe.
00:11:53 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So for example, to move 200,000 troops to where you're sitting in a Baltic state today would take NATO at least 45 days.
00:12:07 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Okay?
00:12:07 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
That's, okay.
00:12:10 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Vilnius is 15 kilometers.
00:12:13 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
from the Belarus border.
00:12:15 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
The Silwaukee Gap is what, 90 kilometers.
00:12:19 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Russia will breach those defenses far sooner than 45 days.
00:12:26 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And the reason is that the rails aren't harmonized, that the roads aren't wide enough, that the bridges are too low.
00:12:35 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
You just physically cannot move the assets fast enough.
00:12:39 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And
00:12:41 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
this is why the autobahns exist in Germany, right?
00:12:43 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
This is why the interstate system exists in the United States.
00:12:48 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's to move military assets quickly to where they need it.
00:12:52 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And there might be a plan in Europe to do this, but it's not apparent that there's a plan.
00:13:00 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And it's certainly not being implemented or implemented on any reasonable time frame with any sense of urgency.
00:13:10 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So there's the physical infrastructure, there's also communications infrastructure.
00:13:16 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
The key communication system for the defense of Ukraine is Starlink.
00:13:24 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Okay?
00:13:25 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Well, that's a monopoly owned by a single individual.
00:13:31 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
The world's richest man, right?
00:13:34 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It cannot be a monopoly.
00:13:38 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
NATO needs an independent LEO system.
00:13:43 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Low Earth orbit satellite system.
00:13:46 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
China's building one.
00:13:48 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Russia's building one.
00:13:52 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Why isn't this a top priority for NATO?
00:13:57 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It doesn't seem to be.
00:14:01 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But it took France and Germany 10 years to kill the joint fighter plane.
00:14:09 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Not to make one, but just to kill the program, right?
00:14:14 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's like no one's in charge.
00:14:16 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's like no one is thinking strategically about what to do.
00:14:21 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And this goes to your next question is like, where is warfare evolving?
00:14:25 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And it's clearly evolving to robots, artificial intelligence, secure communications, data.
00:14:35 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And this is one of the things that I think people underappreciate about Ukraine's war fighting machine is it's how it processes data.
00:14:44 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Algorithms, predictive algorithms about
00:14:49 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
where is Russia most likely to move?
00:14:52 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And how do we need, what holes are we going to need to plug?
00:14:57 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So it's literally heads in the sand.
00:15:02 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And the rhetoric from the politicians is good, drones, drones, drones.
00:15:10 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But the actions are not consistent with the rhetoric.
00:15:14 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
The spending is not consistent with the rhetoric.
00:15:17 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Here's a great example.
00:15:18 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
The UK defense budget just came out, right?
00:15:20 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Yeah.
00:15:21 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
A year and a half out of date.
00:15:23 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Yes.
00:15:24 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And what was its number one priority?
00:15:28 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I mean, hybrid Navy.
00:15:30 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
No, 60,000 jobs.
00:15:33 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Oh, right.
00:15:33 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yes.
00:15:34 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah.
00:15:35 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Right.
00:15:35 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
That was its number one thing.
00:15:39 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
This will create 60,000 jobs.
00:15:42 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
75% of that budget is going to legacy systems that are probably obsolete in a real conflict.
00:15:51 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Only 25% into the hybrid stuff.
00:15:55 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And as far as I could tell, there is no top line budget for anti-ballistic missiles.
00:16:01 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Right?
00:16:01 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Zero for anti-ballistic missiles.
00:16:04 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And this is very frustrating, painful.
00:16:08 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's painful to watch.
00:16:12 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
The Ukraine warfare has evolved from tank movements to drone movements now to ballistics, right?
00:16:19 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Because Russia is not dumb.
00:16:22 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Russia, they're very good at fighting.
00:16:25 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And they see that, oh, on the ground, we're kind of at a stalemate.
00:16:30 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
At the drone thing, we know we'll make faster, bigger payloads, longer range drones, and the Ukrainians will come up with faster, better interceptors.
00:16:41 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But ballistics, Ukraine has no defenses against ballistics domestically.
00:16:46 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So that's where we're putting our incremental resources in ballistic missile production.
00:16:53 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Russia right now can make 100 a month, 1,200 a year.
00:16:59 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
The entire production in the ex-Israel, because Israel won't sell theirs to anybody, but is 800 from the US
00:17:09 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
and 100 from MDE, whatever it is, the Santee system.
00:17:16 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So that's 900 anti-ballistic missiles against 1,200 just from Russia, like not counting what China and Iran and everybody else is making.
00:17:27 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Those 900 have to go to every ally.
00:17:30 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
They have to go from South Korea to Japan to Kuwait to Saudi Arabia to Europe.
00:17:39 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Why isn't this a priority?
00:17:42 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah, a big priority.
00:17:43 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And remember, you have to shoot two anti-ballistics at a ballistic on average, right?
00:17:48 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So this, and yet, you know, France just announced a new, or yeah, a new tank.
00:17:55 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
You know, like a new tank.
00:17:58 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
A new tank that won't be ready until 2040.
00:18:05 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
it's literally like no one is using their brain.
00:18:12 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So we're always interested to hear from organizations that want to contribute their thoughts to our articles.
00:18:18 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
If this is you, send it to the e-mail newsletter to stay up to date on what we're working on.
00:18:21 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
There's a link in the show notes.
00:18:23 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Otherwise, back to the episode.
00:18:28 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Yeah.
00:18:28 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah, I mean, there's two things I definitely kind of want to get behind on that.
00:18:34 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So, you mentioned the Sawalki Gap, so we wrote an article very recently highlighting that the Sawalki Gap is a single point of failure, where the Russians don't necessarily have to, you know, get close to it, they can DF it with
00:18:46 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
artillery or shahads or any kind of munition and then it's therefore kind of out of action.
00:18:53 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Same with the kind of the railway systems from what I know across the Baltics from Polish, they're different gauges so you can't necessarily move one train
00:19:03 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
across the border between Estonia and Latvia, Lithuania.
00:19:07 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Well, you can, but you just have to change the carriages and it takes at least an hour per train to do that.
00:19:13 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
If the specialist is on hand as well to do that, you know, and if the specialist gets taken out or he's, you know, he or she is otherwise incapacitated, then again, you've got another single point of failure.
00:19:23 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
And in the same way that Starlink could be seen as a single point of failure as well.
00:19:27 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So I definitely agree with kind of like the point you raised there.
00:19:32 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
It's definitely interesting to kind of see this perspective from it because we've been looking closely at these single points of failure and saying, right, there's a lot of single points of failure here and there's a lot of kind of politicking across NATO and necessarily there's people who are
00:19:51 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
putting the national interests, national economic interests ahead of possible kind of security architecture.
00:19:57 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
And especially when you come to the point of France's tank, if it's not running until 2014, the chances are it's going to be redundant within the next two years at the very end.
00:20:08 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's already obsolete.
00:20:09 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Because people are using, because obviously countries have developed the technologies to remotely control
00:20:16 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
armoured vehicles.
00:20:17 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So it's, and with the advances in humanoids, not necessarily in the military space yet, then it's, we're kind of probably looking at a space where soldiers are deployed in very, very small numbers with very specialist activities, right?
00:20:32 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
and probably going to be controlling drone swarms rather than necessarily going into kind of hostile, environments, perhaps special forces might be doing something differently from that, but I can't imagine something like
00:20:46 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
your tier 2 or tier 3 conventional military going into places, especially not in tanks these days, when we're looking at, you just have to look at history and just see how badly tanks do in urban environments and other places, notwithstanding Ukraine as well.
00:21:01 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So I appreciate bringing up these points.
00:21:04 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
It's always good to get these things out in the open.
00:21:07 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
We love conversations like this.
00:21:09 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Well, I mean, sometimes I wonder if military planners look at a map.
00:21:15 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
look at a map of Europe.
00:21:17 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's very clear what border Russia would like to have with Europe.
00:21:24 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
They want the shortest border possible.
00:21:27 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So connecting with Kaliningrad gives them the shortest border port possible.
00:21:33 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And remember, St.
00:21:33 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Petersburg freezes in the winter.
00:21:35 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Kronstadt freezes in the winter.
00:21:37 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Kaliningrad does not freeze in the winter.
00:21:41 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
That's their best ice-free port.
00:21:44 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And then at the north, all the rhetoric in Eurasian political philosophy is Finland is part of Russia.
00:21:54 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So you take Finland and you cut off part of Norway, part of Sweden, and you have that very short border between the Arctic and the Gulf of Batnia.
00:22:05 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And that's a very defensible border for Russia.
00:22:09 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
That would be a great border for them.
00:22:11 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So they will
00:22:13 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Again, they're not dumb.
00:22:15 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
They think about this very strategically.
00:22:18 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah, definitely.
00:22:20 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Well, let me jump on to my next question.
00:22:22 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So what piece of defense innovation is grabbing at the moment in terms of across your portfolio and absolutely your portfolio?
00:22:29 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
What things are getting you excited at the moment?
00:22:32 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Yes.
00:22:33 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So I think we need to be very careful about thinking about
00:22:38 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
over-hyping individual technologies.
00:22:42 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Okay, because there is no single magic bullet in defense.
00:22:50 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's a system of fighting.
00:22:54 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Okay, and ideally it is a highly adaptive and
00:23:00 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
easy to evolve system of fighting.
00:23:03 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And this is what Ukraine is doing so well at, although not by far, certainly not perfectly.
00:23:10 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But so one of the things that I think is totally underestimated in NATO militaries is that Ukraine is innovative not just because it has to be, but because it's structurally
00:23:25 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
can be, while the NATO military structurally cannot be.
00:23:30 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And what I mean by that is at least 25% of the overall Ukrainian military budget is spent directly by the combat commands without going through the MOD.
00:23:44 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I mean, think about that.
00:23:45 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
That's war fighters can buy what they think will work for them.
00:23:49 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
They don't have to go through RFPs for years.
00:23:51 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
They can literally go to some machine shop in Lviv and say, make this for me in an iterative fashion.
00:24:01 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It comes back to, oh, I want the fins, you know, 2 inches, not 3 inches.
00:24:06 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's constant back and forth on everything that they're buying.
00:24:11 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's not like, oh, that spec was off and then it takes at least two months, if not two years to get that spec reintegrated in the supply chain.
00:24:21 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Or it's training, right?
00:24:24 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Like Ukraine is training 10s of thousands of drone pilots.
00:24:32 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
There are private schools.
00:24:34 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
There are charity schools, like victory drones, which we are a very big supporter of, run by the woman Maria Balinska, who's called the mother of drones in Ukraine.
00:24:48 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And I think they train like 10,000 pilots a year.
00:24:52 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Are there even 10,000 FPB pilots in all of European NATO?
00:24:59 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I doubt it.
00:24:59 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I think probably not that.
00:25:02 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Or even basic training.
00:25:05 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Think about basic training.
00:25:07 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
If you are a military infantry recruit in a NATO military, you spend 40% of your time with a rifle.
00:25:16 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Marching with a rifle, running with a rifle, stripping the rifle, like the rifle is your weapon.
00:25:21 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
The rifle is not the weapon in Ukraine.
00:25:24 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It is only the weapon of special operations forces that are doing incursions, you know, direct combat with Russian
00:25:31 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
incursions.
00:25:32 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It is the drone.
00:25:35 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Zero training hours, zero training hours in any NATO infantry basic training with drones.
00:25:43 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Think about how the platoon is set up.
00:25:47 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
The US military, Marine Corps, 13-man rifle platoon.
00:25:51 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
That's like the standard.
00:25:54 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
In Ukraine, it's the five-man drone platoon or squad.
00:26:00 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Again, it's like no one is learning anything from Ukraine or they're learning very slowly.
00:26:08 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
There is medics, just how you run your medic support of your military.
00:26:16 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
There are Superhumans, which is an incredible organization in Ukraine, like it is the center for prosthetic innovation in the world right now, sadly, but
00:26:28 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So Olga, who runs it, I forget her last name, she's one of the founders.
00:26:34 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
She was saying they haven't seen bullet trauma in a year.
00:26:40 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Oh, really?
00:26:40 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Fascinating.
00:26:41 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Yes.
00:26:42 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
The trauma is drones and howitzer ammunition and some mines, right?
00:26:51 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So how do you set up your medics
00:26:55 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
to deal with that?
00:26:56 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
How do you set up your evacs to deal with constantly surveilled battlefields?
00:27:01 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah.
00:27:02 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Right?
00:27:03 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Is NATO's medical support system for its troops evolving?
00:27:09 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I'm sure it is on paper.
00:27:11 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah.
00:27:12 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
On paper.
00:27:13 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Yeah.
00:27:14 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So we hear this drones, drones, drones, you know, drones, drones, drones.
00:27:18 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And so politicians are like, turn to their generals and say, hey, where are our drones?
00:27:22 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
We need drones.
00:27:23 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And so you get a company like a Helsing or a Techover or an Arx Robotics or a Skycutter, oh, we'll solve that problem for you.
00:27:33 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And so they go to Ukraine and they fly some drones around, they give some free drones to some troops because Ukraine will take anything for free.
00:27:42 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah.
00:27:43 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Right?
00:27:44 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And then they go back to their MODs and say, hey, we have perfected this drone on the battlefields of Ukraine.
00:27:52 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And then they get the billion dollar contract to make that for their MODs.
00:27:57 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And then they go to the venture community and they raise at a $10 billion valuation.
00:28:04 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
This is ridiculous.
00:28:05 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
For $10 billion, if you put that into Ukraine, the amount of production you could get from Ukraine is just incredible.
00:28:15 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Like there's maybe two Western companies that are doing this right with Ukraine.
00:28:19 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Okay.
00:28:20 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And then you've got the other problem, which is like Ukrainians are dying, literally dying for this asset, the battlefield.
00:28:29 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And yet the NATO countries are coming in and exploiting that and giving Ukraine almost nothing in exchange.
00:28:35 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And you argue, oh, we just gave you $90 billion.
00:28:37 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Like, shouldn't we get this for our $90 billion?
00:28:41 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
OK, come on.
00:28:42 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
You're spending almost nothing, $90 billion for the defense of your continent by Ukraine.
00:28:50 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
If Ukraine falls, you are so screwed.
00:28:53 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So don't give me this, oh, we should get everything that Ukraine has to offer because we do this.
00:28:59 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And by the way, that 90 billion isn't even, yes, it's technically European money, but it's secured by Russian assets, Russian assets.
00:29:10 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So it's a loan against the future claim on those Russian assets.
00:29:16 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Will we ever see the Russian assets get liquidated and get paid back?
00:29:20 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I have no idea.
00:29:22 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But that is the technical legal mechanism for all this money going to Ukraine.
00:29:28 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's, you know, so Burnham just met with Zelensky, right?
00:29:34 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah.
00:29:36 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And what did he say?
00:29:37 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
He said, we are firmly standing behind Ukraine, behind Ukraine, and we will support our unwavering support of Ukraine for as long as it takes.
00:29:51 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
As long as it takes for what?
00:29:54 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
For Ukraine to lose?
00:29:55 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
For Ukraine's manpower to be bled out?
00:29:59 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
For Europe to
00:30:02 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
steal the innovations of Ukraine for their own defense purposes?
00:30:06 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Like this is the worst geopolitical strategy I've ever heard.
00:30:13 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And it started not with Europe, it started with the Biden administration, right?
00:30:17 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
That that's where for as long as it takes came from.
00:30:21 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
What military strategist would ever say for as long as it takes is a winning military strategy.
00:30:28 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah.
00:30:29 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Like it should be for as short as it takes to defeat the enemy.
00:30:33 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
That's what military strategy is.
00:30:36 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And Russia's eminently defeatable.
00:30:40 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It would require a lot more resources to Ukraine.
00:30:42 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah, fascinating.
00:30:44 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
You brought one of the things you mentioned there, and I've written notes down to make sure we include victory drones and superhumans in the show notes, so we can put links to their websites or their social media links.
00:30:56 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
You reminded me of a time when back in Baghdad in 2006 when the combat support hospital in the
00:31:02 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
National Zone was, we were helping out there as part of a close protection team in the embassy and they were saying this at the moment, this is the most up-to-date trauma medicine that is informing the entire world.
00:31:14 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
And it was, we were there spending our evenings and weekends in the trauma support hospital, you know, helping out the medics there and they were saying that what we're doing right now, this is actually informing the entire world on blast injuries, on penetrating trauma, IEDs, IEDs, the likes.
00:31:30 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I mean, it was kind of
00:31:31 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
the pre-IED era, I would say, but it was still the blunt force trauma from small arms, from rockets, grenades and that sort of stuff.
00:31:41 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
But what you mentioned there about Ukraine at the moment is
00:31:46 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
is, I would argue, is probably in the same position that Baghdad was back in the mid 2000s, early 2000s.
00:31:52 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Absolutely, 100% medicine and also informing medicine planning as well.
00:31:58 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So there was a concept before I left the Marines back in 2016 where we'd start to cache blood types.
00:32:04 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
You know, you understand the blood types of your troop.
00:32:06 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
You know, my troop was back that time kind of like 30 odd Marines at a time.
00:32:10 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
And so we'd start planning out
00:32:12 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
we're going to cache O positive as it's the universal blood type, but we're going to have X amount of this, X amount of that for kind of like, up and down for battlefield casualty replacements, etc., etc.
00:32:25 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
But it's taken an even bigger step since then, since that, and it's being informed by Ukraine.
00:32:33 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So I hope that knowledge is being captured
00:32:37 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I hope everyone's paying attention to it and actually learning from it because there will be this will be the most predictive type of planning we could get if we were to if World War Two, World War Three was ever to eventuate, which God forbid I hope it doesn't.
00:32:54 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
If it does, then obviously we've got a head start on it because we can see what is happening at the moment.
00:32:58 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
And I hope
00:33:00 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
that kind of knowledge is making its way back to Whitehall, the US, the people who are in charge of planning these sorts of things.
00:33:07 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So that's what we want.
00:33:09 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And I'm sure a lot of it is, but again, probably mostly on paper.
00:33:15 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It takes a long time to go from
00:33:18 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
plans to implementation to training to getting your supply chain set up.
00:33:24 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And you just take the US military medical system, 80% of the supplies come from China.
00:33:31 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So in an extended conflict with China, kinetic one, which I doubt will ever happen, but the US will run out of stuff.
00:33:41 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah, which is an interesting point because today they have announced they were looking into the defense supply chains.
00:33:50 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Also, they've just authorized AI to be looking into defense supply chains.
00:33:57 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Yeah, but this will take a decade, or more to, and, but they should be doing this, and I'm, this is a good thing for them to be doing.
00:34:07 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But you mentioned, Battlefield, I mentioned it and we've been talking about Battlefield Medicine.
00:34:11 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So outside of myths, I've invested in two companies that, I hope save soldiers' lives.
00:34:21 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And
00:34:22 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
One is called Delta Development.
00:34:25 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It is a US company that makes a logistics systems for whole blood to be delivered to the front line.
00:34:34 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So it's basically whole blood supply chain in a specialized cooler that keeps it chilled and then warms it to the right temperature for infusion for that golden 20 minutes.
00:34:48 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And it's being used in Ukraine.
00:34:51 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I'm very excited about it.
00:34:52 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Like it's, and it can be used in civilian uses, you know, in trauma situations, you know?
00:34:57 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Sure, yeah.
00:34:57 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Road traffic accidents.
00:35:00 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So that's one pretty cool technology.
00:35:04 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Another very cool technology was developed in Ukraine called
00:35:13 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Biodrook, B-I-O-D-R-O-O-K, which means bioprint in Ukrainian.
00:35:20 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And this company does 3D printing of bioabsorbable bone material.
00:35:27 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Oh, wow.
00:35:27 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Fascinating.
00:35:28 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Right.
00:35:29 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So right now, state-of-the-art for bone replacement is titanium.
00:35:32 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah.
00:35:33 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Right.
00:35:33 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
You could light, you can, you know, you can put in durable, put in the right shape, right?
00:35:39 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Very expensive.
00:35:40 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I was going to say, yeah.
00:35:42 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And your body wants to reject it.
00:35:45 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I already.
00:35:46 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Right, because it's not, yeah, because it's not a natural, intrinsic to the human body.
00:35:54 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Biotruk does 3D printing of a bioabsorbable material that is similar to what your teeth have made of.
00:36:02 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And over a three-year period, your actual bone cells replace this.
00:36:10 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So in a three-year period, depends on the person.
00:36:14 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It could be 2 1/2 years, could be five years, but it becomes your own bone.
00:36:21 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And the catch to that is initially it's not as strong as titanium.
00:36:28 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Okay, so for some, it's not perfect for every application, but if you're missing a chunk of a bone in your femur or in your ulna, like we can print this specifically for your gap and implement it.
00:36:45 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And we can do it in a field hospital.
00:36:47 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
We can put the whole lab in a 20 foot container and deliver it to a field hospital.
00:36:52 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So this is approved for human use in Ukraine.
00:36:57 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
We're doing operations.
00:36:58 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Once we get a couple dozen more, then we'll bring it to the EU for approval.
00:37:03 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And hopefully this will become standard in military medical supply chains because it'll reduce the need for amputations.
00:37:11 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah, fascinating.
00:37:14 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I can bring some first-hand experience into this conversation, which will probably raise some eyebrows, but I'll go with it anyway.
00:37:20 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So back in 2019, I fell off the Mathorn Mountain when I was trying to climb it, stupidly not roped up.
00:37:28 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I got medevaced from the mountain to Aostra in Italy, and long story short, I had to regrow 6 centimetres of my shin bone because the titanium rod they put into the leg was infected.
00:37:41 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So 10 months into the pandemic, I was regrowing a period called osteogenesis, which is you have an external fixator attached to your leg, which you have seen from the Afghanistan, Iraq kind of period.
00:37:52 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So over 10 months, I was regrowing my shin bone with my right leg.
00:37:56 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
And I can tell you firsthand that it's a long, slow, painful process.
00:38:00 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
If there's something to bring that down, I can say with absolute certainty that will be appreciated by people who are in conflict situations.
00:38:09 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
And it would
00:38:10 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
definitely speed up the recovery.
00:38:11 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I mean, I've got almost say full movement back into my leg.
00:38:16 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I've got some pretty gnarly scars there to kind of remind myself to not to take silly silly mistakes in the future, but I can definitely vouch for that kind of technology to be used in the battle.
00:38:27 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Well, that's exactly that's exactly a great use case for what for what we're doing at Beautiful.
00:38:34 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So, you know, I don't want people to think that, you know, oh, Perry Boyle goes in and he's just trying to, you know, make explosives and weapons and everything, and
00:38:41 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
To me, this is about how do we defend democracy?
00:38:43 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
What are the tools that will help do that?
00:38:45 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And to me, war is a system.
00:38:48 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's not a product.
00:38:49 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Innovation is a process.
00:38:51 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's not a product.
00:38:52 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Drones are a process, not a product.
00:38:55 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Like they're constantly evolving.
00:38:57 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yes.
00:38:58 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah.
00:38:58 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And so the structures of militaries, if you structure your military so that it can innovate,
00:39:06 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
versus structure military so that it's solely focused on standardization?
00:39:12 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
You can probably go to extremes, but there's probably a balance that Ukraine is far closer to finding than any NATO military is.
00:39:24 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And guess who's learning this better than any NATO military?
00:39:29 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
China.
00:39:31 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
China has
00:39:32 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
hundreds of people on the ground in occupied Ukraine Like how many NATO military people Go to Ukraine very few because you don't want somebody in uniform getting shot by the Russians.
00:39:44 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It'll start world war three, right?
00:39:48 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
China doesn't seem to have that concern, you know China already operates some kind of mining operation in in occupied Ukraine They say it's aggregates for roads
00:40:02 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
That doesn't make any sense, but I wonder what they're actually doing at that plant.
00:40:07 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I don't know.
00:40:09 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But China is by far the country that is learning the lessons of Ukraine far more than any other country.
00:40:18 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah, fascinating.
00:40:20 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And they're making money off of both sides.
00:40:22 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Well, yeah, exactly.
00:40:24 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So the solution to both sides, then obviously you're going to be
00:40:28 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
you're going to be taking that IP and bring it back to your developers and your R&D labs to iterate faster than your opponent can.
00:40:40 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Fascinating.
00:40:40 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
That's something we've not covered on the podcast yet, so thanks for bringing that to the conversation.
00:40:46 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I realise I realise a kind of a conversation, the questions I've kind of shared are possibly a bit
00:40:53 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
innovation a bit bland.
00:40:54 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So feel free to kind of like freewheel a bit more because this is probably one of the more interesting conversations we've had speaking about what's happening in Ukraine at the moment.
00:41:02 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
And I see from the social media, you've been there on a number of occasions to kind of like find out what the need is and what the kind of what's happening on the ground from the looks of it.
00:41:15 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Yeah, so Mits Capital has a team of about twenty-two people right now in Kyiv, and we have
00:41:23 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
an investment banking group, we have a legal team, but we also have a technology team.
00:41:29 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And that technology team is not integrated into the military, but spends a lot of time with military units.
00:41:38 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And it's like, what do you need?
00:41:42 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
How can we get this to you faster?
00:41:48 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
what unique thing, because Ukraine has done a phenomenal job.
00:41:52 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Ukraine's industrial base has done a phenomenal job at meeting the needs of its military.
00:41:56 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But that need constantly evolves.
00:41:58 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And we are not the mass producers, but we can be catalysts for new developments.
00:42:05 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And so we spend a lot of time on that.
00:42:08 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But we work closely with Azov, with the third, with
00:42:15 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
because these are the most innovative military units in the world and perhaps in the history of the world.
00:42:27 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And they are very clear and very specific about the things that work and the things that don't work.
00:42:36 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But there are some very cool things that structurally occur in Ukraine that
00:42:43 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I don't see occurring in the same way in a NATO military, and that's around data and data collection on the battlefield.
00:42:49 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Fascinating to hear, right?
00:42:50 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Think about all the video we're collecting from FPV drones.
00:42:54 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Think about all the video and data we're collecting from the ISR drones and the combat units.
00:43:05 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
to get extra money out of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, out of the Ministry of Defense, not the Armed Forces, but out of the MOD.
00:43:15 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
There's a system that Brave won, which is their DIU, if you will, Defense Innovation Unit.
00:43:24 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
They will give you more allocation of money for proof of effect.
00:43:32 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So if you can
00:43:33 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
prove that you've taken out tanks, if you can prove you've taken out supply depots, if you can prove that you've, then you get more, resources.
00:43:43 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And this concept of pay for success, reward success, reward innovation is really quite compelling.
00:43:54 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And the US military is starting to look at this and think, how do we integrate this into what we're doing?
00:44:01 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And
00:44:03 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And yet, one of the, 20% of drone units in Ukraine create 80% of the kills.
00:44:10 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah, yeah.
00:44:12 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
That's not good, okay?
00:44:14 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
That means that you're not dispersing the learnings enough across the military base.
00:44:22 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Agreed.
00:44:22 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And this is what, I said, Ukraine's not doing everything perfectly.
00:44:25 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
They're not.
00:44:26 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And so they need to do more coordination, more cross-relation against these military silos.
00:44:33 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And I think that's kind of what you just saw happen in Ukraine over the past couple weeks with the people out in the Medan, right?
00:44:40 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's old Ukraine, new Ukraine.
00:44:44 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Old Ukraine military way of thinking, new Ukraine military of thinking.
00:44:48 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And the new is winning out against the old.
00:44:53 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But it's hard.
00:44:54 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Remember, Ukraine is a country that's only 35 years old.
00:45:00 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
You've come from one of the world's oldest democracies.
00:45:02 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I come from the United States 250 years, right?
00:45:05 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So we have certain assumptions about how the world works, about how our systems work, but they're still figuring out in Ukraine.
00:45:16 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I'm very hopeful.
00:45:18 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
No country in history has jumped higher on the fixed corruption than Ukraine has during this war.
00:45:28 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
The silver lining, if there is one in this war, is that
00:45:32 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
post-conflict Ukraine will be a much, much better country than pre-conflict Ukraine.
00:45:38 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah, fascinating.
00:45:39 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I've been looking at it from an innovation perspective as well.
00:45:43 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So my background was leaving the military.
00:45:46 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I kind of studied a business management master's and looked into diffusion of innovation curve.
00:45:50 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
And how do you expedite that diffusion of innovation?
00:45:53 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
It comes down to a lot of
00:45:55 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
psychological, social factors, that cohesion of different groups, the kind of hierarchies that come in from kind of later years, and it's incentives as well.
00:46:08 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah, so it's hearing stories of
00:46:13 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
rapid diffusion of innovation is something which always pulls me into it because it is something I feel so passionately about for making it.
00:46:19 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
And that's actually arguably one of the reasons why we started this podcast was to help NATO innovate faster by diffusing these ideas from, like you bringing it from Ukraine and the Wall Street background and defence SMEs, end users.
00:46:34 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
We're trying to get more government on, they don't seem to be particularly
00:46:37 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Willing to kind of talk to us at the moment, but we're hoping to change that, bring them into the fold.
00:46:43 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But they don't have a lot to a lot of wins in this area, but part of innovation is production.
00:46:57 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
and military production.
00:46:58 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And what Russia is very good at is scaling production of things that work.
00:47:03 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And it's not as good at adapting them, but it's not bad at adapting.
00:47:07 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But it's primary industrial base, like they can produce a lot of drones.
00:47:16 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And Ukraine is very good at this.
00:47:21 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And when you have two to three to four
00:47:26 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
production cycles a year of drone evolution.
00:47:32 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's not like ammunition.
00:47:36 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It's more like fast fashion, right?
00:47:39 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So how do you take a production line and make it flexible enough that it can constantly produce the latest product, right?
00:47:49 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And theoretically, you could do this with AI and robotics, right?
00:47:56 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But who's gonna invest in a robotic production line in a war zone, right?
00:48:01 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So Ukraine does this by hand.
00:48:04 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Like these seven million drones, almost all of them are, they do have CNC machines and they do have 3D printing things, but there's still a lot of hand work in these things.
00:48:18 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But that allows them to be incredibly flexible.
00:48:22 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But it's hard to scale that.
00:48:24 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And so one of the lessons of Ukraine is that military production needs to evolve to be adaptable.
00:48:34 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And you don't want to contract for products.
00:48:38 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
You want to contract for capacity, the capacity to deliver the latest product at the time.
00:48:47 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So we're going to need to rethink how production works for war material.
00:48:53 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And that's a whole nother podcast.
00:48:56 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah, for sure.
00:48:57 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
That's an article we're actually kind of working on at the moment is the centralization versus decentralization argument of production.
00:49:06 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Obviously the cost benefits for centralization, obviously the standardization, the robotics like you mentioned before versus decentralization and
00:49:17 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
How do you then end up with an uneven production quality, especially when you're rolling out such innovative new ways of making things at a much faster scale than what you can do to kind of...
00:49:28 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So, if I was designing a military production plant, I would go hire the guy from Nike.
00:49:35 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
who does custom Nike shoes.
00:49:38 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Like you can log on to this and you can pick out your, you can design your own shoe on the Nike website.
00:49:44 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Now you pay a premium for it, right?
00:49:46 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And it takes a little longer.
00:49:47 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But that kind of thinking, that kind of mentality, how can I do that with an FPV drum?
00:49:54 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Right?
00:49:56 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
That's the mentality that we need for defense production.
00:49:59 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah, fascinating.
00:50:00 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I don't realize time is getting on, so I'm going to jump onto our penultimate question.
00:50:04 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
let you get on with your day because I realise you're it's only morning for you at the moment, isn't it?
00:50:10 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Without giving too many without giving too many secrets away, what trends are you seeing from the companies you've backed at the moment in Ukraine?
00:50:17 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Are they they're not around what any one particular function you've mentioned before?
00:50:21 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
They've been robotics.
00:50:25 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So, we focus on components.
00:50:28 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
We focus on the things that go into drones, so everything from flight controller boards to thermal imaging cameras, acoustic sensors, laser targeting, navigation systems.
00:50:42 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And in these entities, the focus is
00:50:47 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
How can we make these things faster?
00:50:50 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
How can we make them cheaper?
00:50:52 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
How can we take Chinese components out of them, sort of, and then how can we diversify our revenue streams?
00:51:08 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Because after the conflict is resolved, a lot of Ukrainian defense companies are going to be like, who are we going to sell this to, right?
00:51:18 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So we need to start thinking about this for the long-term survival, because we need to attract foreign investment into Ukraine.
00:51:25 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And if they only have one customer, then it's not as attractive an investment.
00:51:29 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
For sure, yeah.
00:51:30 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
The China thing is really fascinating, and I'll give you a specific example.
00:51:35 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
This husband and wife couple from occupied Ukraine, whose house was literally leveled, moved to Western Ukraine and developed a flight controller board for drones, and it's really cheap.
00:51:51 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
like very cheap because every component on the board comes from China.
00:51:56 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And so they pitched us to invest in their company and my team is like, oh, we can't do this because it's just too much Chinese dependency.
00:52:05 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And I said, well, wait a second, can you replace those components with nine Chinese components and what would it cost?
00:52:13 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
They're like, we don't know.
00:52:15 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But they came back a week later and they say, we actually found a Western analog for every component, but it's going to cost five times as much.
00:52:24 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Like, do you really want us to do that?
00:52:27 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I said, well, not for what you're doing today, but for your customer diversification program, you need to do that.
00:52:35 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And it's still at five times more, still 20% of the price of anything you can buy in Europe.
00:52:41 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So it's like we're in and they're doing phenomenally.
00:52:48 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So for one way trips, you want the cheapest, cheapest, cheapest that can
00:52:55 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
achieve the effect that you're trying to achieve.
00:52:59 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And often that means China.
00:53:01 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So as long as we can source this stuff from China, we will.
00:53:06 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But long term, strategically for customer diversification, for strategic dependence on China, we want to have alternatives.
00:53:14 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So our companies, it's a real focus to take China out of the supply chain or have a duplicative supply chain to replace the Chinese aspect.
00:53:24 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah, which again is come back to that single point of failure, as we mentioned before, which is a classic economics principle, isn't it, is you always look into your supply chain and ensure that there isn't a single point of failure anywhere.
00:53:36 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
It maps across to cyber security, a lot of other kind of areas as well.
00:53:40 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
But it's fascinating to hear when you, sorry, fascinating to see when playing out in real time in Ukraine at the moment where you've got people who are really, really innovating and really just squeezing the most value from this technology is it sets an example that for a lot of entrepreneurs, for innovators, for R&D scientists,
00:54:03 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I think it's the most interesting place to be looking at the moment.
00:54:07 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
I've not been there since the conflict started, but I do intend to kind of visit at some point when it doesn't appear to be conflict tourism on our side.
00:54:18 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
But I'll jump on to my final question, but I realise you've got here.
00:54:21 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
You're always welcome.
00:54:22 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Ukraine welcomes you.
00:54:24 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Like throughout Kyiv, there's these signs that say
00:54:28 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Kyiv's ready for you to come back kind of thing, which I think, why is this in Kyiv?
00:54:32 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Like, you know, nobody's gonna see this.
00:54:34 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But work, I'm not against war tourism.
00:54:39 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Okay, because it brings money into Ukraine.
00:54:43 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Ukraine needs the money.
00:54:43 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
It also, you learn and you go home and you can tell the world what you saw.
00:54:49 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
And I don't think there's enough of that.
00:54:51 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I think the media coverage of Ukraine is very poor in Europe and the US.
00:54:56 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So please come, come to our office.
00:55:00 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
We'll share what we're doing.
00:55:04 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But if I have one message to the listeners,
00:55:08 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
come to Ukraine, see for yourself.
00:55:10 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Don't take other people's words for this.
00:55:13 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
You know, don't, certainly not journalists who know nothing about what they're covering generally.
00:55:19 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
come see for yourself.
00:55:21 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah, for sure.
00:55:22 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
This, just before I jump on to the final question, this is something we did with Afghanistan back in 2017, 2018, actually.
00:55:28 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
We visited Kabul to meet Afghan athletes to help increase their profile in the wake of the, you know, the Taliban.
00:55:35 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
And these athletes sports teams were actually using sports as a way, as a therapy and a way of overcoming cultural differences between the different tribes.
00:55:43 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
And it was, it was
00:55:45 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
the place where you could see real progress happening that wasn't getting the media coverage we felt it deserved, so we went and covered it and amplified it to the BBC, international media outlets.
00:55:55 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
And this is something we kind of, we've always wanted to get back to that mission-driven approach, but that's again another conversation entirely.
00:56:01 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
So I won't label on about Kabul and the work we did there.
00:56:06 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
But final question is, if we're having this conversation again in five years' time, what major shift in defence technology do you think we'd be talking about?
00:56:15 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Robots.
00:56:16 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
I think it's really replacing humans with robots, which interestingly is a national policy in China.
00:56:28 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Like, it's a specific principle of Chinese economic development, replace humans with robots.
00:56:34 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Really.
00:56:36 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Yeah.
00:56:36 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
There's a specific Chinese phrase for this.
00:56:40 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
But for example, I was just reading something about
00:56:44 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Amphibious landings, like your highest casualty rates of troops are in amphibious landings.
00:56:50 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Why would you risk humans when you could send ground drones to do the early stuff for beach clearing and stuff like that, right?
00:57:00 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
So it's not like humans will be totally replaced in our lifetime by robots, but certainly they'll be augmented by it.
00:57:08 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
The General Biletsky, who runs the Third Corps, wrote an essay about this, saying that he thinks he can replace up to 80% of his infantry troops with robots, eventually, and that we need to rethink the entire concept of what infantry is, what infantrymen do, and how we integrate them with robots to create the maximum leverage of the human warfighter with robotics.
00:57:37 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
Yeah, fascinating.
00:57:39 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
That's a brilliant place to end there.
00:57:41 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
And before we jump into more about Marines and robotics and stuff, which I could easily talk about for the next few hours, but yeah, I just want to say thank you so much for joining us on the podcast and sharing your insights from firsthand from Ukraine, defense innovation and investing as well.
00:57:57 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
It's been an absolute pleasure.
00:58:00 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
Thank you.
00:58:00 Perry Boyle, co-founder of MITS Capital, an investment group with offices in Kyiv and New York, that’s focused on accelerating the development of Ukrainian defense technologies
My pleasure.
00:58:03 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
It's really great chatting with Perry and hearing more about the investments they're making.
00:58:06 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _, The Defence Design and Communications Agency
For them to find out more about them, check out the show notes below and we'll see you next time.
