BCE Defensive - Innovative Protection to Increase Combat Survivability
In this episode, we talk to Mark Smith, founder of BCE Defensive, a UK-based defence company focused on protecting the vital organs on soldiers.
We discuss the difficulties of protection from a penetrating neck injury, how their NG-Serpa allows soldiers to operate in challenging environments whilst being protected from fragmentation, and how the feedback they got from Ukrainian soldiers helped them to develop the product.
Find out more: https://www.bcedefensive.com/
Production, Design & Artwork: Hiatus.Digital
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00:00:01 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Hi, welcome to the Future Frontiers podcast from millilux.io.
00:00:05 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
In this episode, we talk to Mark Smith, founder of BCE Defensive, a UK-based defence company focused on protecting the vital organs of soldiers.
00:00:13 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
We discussed the difficulties of protection from a penetrating neck injury, how their NG-SERPA allows soldiers to operate in challenging environments whilst being protected from fragmentation, and how the feedback they got from Ukrainian soldiers helped them to develop the product.
00:00:40 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Hey Mark, mate, thank you so much for joining us on the Future Frontiers podcast.
00:00:43 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
How's it going in sunny Plymouth at the moment?
00:00:46 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Hey Chris, yeah, great to see you again.
00:00:49 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yes, you're right, it is actually sunny today and I hope it remains a little bit longer.
00:00:55 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I think it's very much needed, isn't it, for such a long time without it.
00:00:59 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
But yes, as I was saying earlier, I almost feel myself squinting
00:01:04 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
in this room and it's bright and I'm not quite used to it.
00:01:06 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I don't think my eyes are used to it yet.
00:01:10 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Like you said before, like too worried about kind of scaring off, so they're not referred to it as spring or summer in public just in case it just turns to like sleet and rain and like hurricanes and whatnot.
00:01:21 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
That's right, yeah.
00:01:24 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
No, it's the same down here and it's very much welcomed, absolutely.
00:01:31 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Yeah, for sure.
00:01:32 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Well, thank you.
00:01:32 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Thanks again for joining us on the Future Funded podcast.
00:01:34 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
We met at DSCI last year and we've been obviously following your work with BC Defensive and really wanted to just get a chance to get you on the podcast and just kind of share a bit more about the journey to it, what it's about, what problems it solves and kind of where you might be looking for the future if it's not too early to kind of look ahead at the end there.
00:01:52 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So yeah, I'll just roll into our first question.
00:01:57 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So you spent over a decade working alongside defence industry and clearly you care a lot about kind of soldier welfare as we've kind of discussed over the last few months.
00:02:06 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
What experiences shaped you to focus on this type of protection ultimately led to you starting BC Defensive and creating the Serpa?
00:02:16 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah, absolutely.
00:02:17 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So, well, I mean, firstly, I'd like to say that
00:02:20 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Working in the defence industry is possibly the best decision I've actually made in my adult life, and I say that because it's given me the chance to not only expand my opportunities, but is...
00:02:38 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It's increased my awareness to business, to operations and strategy and growth.
00:02:43 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And so, I think it's really given me a new dynamic into how to think and how to work.
00:02:51 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So I'm quite grateful to, I guess, that I've been maneuvered into this space.
00:02:57 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And those 10 years for my full-time work, I've worked for a company
00:03:04 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
very large company who support and manage and operate with the military.
00:03:12 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So I'm super grateful to to work with with the company.
00:03:15 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And yeah, it's given me all those experiences and and it's kind of shaped me to to how I think.
00:03:21 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And on your sort of note there about what experiences has shaped me and well, I can't I can't personally claim any
00:03:32 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
military service, because I have never served, but what it has given me some recognition behind is the ability to innovate and to do so frequently.
00:03:44 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It's something I've had for such a long dwell, as long as I can remember, to being able to think and produce and design and develop things.
00:03:52 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I think that's really the kind of the foundations behind
00:03:58 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
what's managed to come forth.
00:04:00 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I guess, combining the two, it's brought me to the road of creating BCE and the product of NG Serpa as well.
00:04:10 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Yeah, brilliant.
00:04:11 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I went to university and studied design in Plymouth, so I know that kind of the atmosphere, that kind of ecosystem that you're talking about.
00:04:18 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
It did make me want to kind of highlight a point there as well, is I think defence is even more stronger for having, not just having us veterans, having the people that
00:04:27 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
have the experiences outside of it and the technical knowledge and experiences to help actually, kind of bring in those new ideas, those innovations, like yourself, having worked for a big defence company who can bring in, much better ways of doing things than, service leavers military have done in the past.
00:04:46 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
And also as well as challenging the status quo of just because something's been done a certain way for so long, there's no reason that you can't change that.
00:04:55 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
And I think we're in that era now of
00:04:57 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
we have to innovate to, stay ahead, to stay, stay well defended, and yes, that's why I was so pleased when you're happy to join the podcast.
00:05:06 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah, no, I completely agree.
00:05:08 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I think, as you're saying there, wait, if you are surrounded with those with like-mindedness of that design and innovation space, I think what you'll find is if you take away the people that haven't necessarily served,
00:05:21 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
they can have a different viewpoint under a new lens of how to create from a new dynamic.
00:05:27 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And, quite often that's not exactly how the real world maybe work in a conflict situation.
00:05:35 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
However, the new idea behind it, and I feel as though there's probably a little bit more motivation behind in actually developing and turning around an idea.
00:05:45 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
You know, the principle of an idea is there and then somebody might want to just actually
00:05:50 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
create that quicker and faster than anyone else could possibly do, who's already in that space.
00:05:57 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I think we, really need to capture these areas of these new SMEs and these new businesses popping up.
00:06:06 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And just people like yourselves who are given a platform and an ear to these new ideas, it's really important to do so.
00:06:13 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Yeah, definitely.
00:06:13 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Yeah, I mean, it's one of my personal passions is like amplifying those
00:06:18 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
those disruptive ideas because it kind of resonates massively with our own brand and that's where kind of Milux came from was this ability to actually kind of like, make the system take notice of these, things that are happening around it.
00:06:32 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So actually, everyone benefits from it, the military benefits from it, the country benefits from it, and actually the ecosystem gets stronger.
00:06:39 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So yeah, fantastic.
00:06:41 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So it does get me on to my next question because I do want to come around a bit more into the SERPA a little bit more.
00:06:48 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
at some point.
00:06:48 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So I guess, so kind of designing equipment for combat is, as you'll agree, very different from civilian markets, obviously, notwithstanding the requirements, the stress that goes into these things, and so on and so forth.
00:07:02 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I kind of wanted to just get into kind of how, like, what your exposure for the realities of military operations influenced the way that you developed the product design and the evolution of it.
00:07:14 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I kind of wed that
00:07:17 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
where'd that come from?
00:07:18 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Absolutely.
00:07:19 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I'd like to say, I think from my perspective, and I'm sure there's many, many others out there that probably agree that designing equipment to protect from combat, I feel as though is the absolute pinnacle of that area.
00:07:35 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
and that is the difference between, the civilian side of things and, because that encroaches on maybe the recreational side of things and other industries.
00:07:46 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
But
00:07:47 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
protective equipment for combat, that is the highest point of design I feel as though because you really are there to try and save lives, mitigate from wounds and you can't get any higher than that.
00:08:01 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So that's from my personal preference and to say that you're able to design and develop garments which could potentially save somebody's life is a really proud reflection from that.
00:08:15 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So
00:08:16 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I would say my main sort of influence.
00:08:18 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah, that was that was a funny, that was a funny one.
00:08:23 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I was again, like most people out there, you've probably spoken to the Ukraine war.
00:08:29 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It was such a pivotal moment for realization on how modern warfare has changed.
00:08:36 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And it was really kind of the test paper of, OK, things are so different now.
00:08:44 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And how do we adapt to that?
00:08:45 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And the moment was there was a documentary being shown in Ukraine of all the soldiers being recruited, but also all these warehouses with tables of military equipment being lined up to be donated.
00:09:01 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And across the tables, there was boots and helmets and vests and everything else and people getting sized up and it was all being sent out.
00:09:08 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And there was just that sort of that trigger moment when I looked at
00:09:13 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
everyone being interviewed or on camera, they all had a snood or a neck gauger on or a buff.
00:09:20 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It was a fleece or an elastine pullover.
00:09:25 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I don't know what it was.
00:09:27 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It was just almost like you could call it a download moment, but I just thought to myself, that's not protective.
00:09:33 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah, And it was there was that cross moment of, you know, you're issuing out all of these bits of kit and pretty standard kit.
00:09:40 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah, great.
00:09:41 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And
00:09:42 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I think that was the real sort of the light bulb moment as it were.
00:09:46 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I think from first initially seeing everyone with a fleece or an elastine snood was just that moment to think, okay, what about neck protection?
00:09:59 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And if they weren't wearing a snood or a pullover, they were wearing nothing at all.
00:10:06 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Yeah.
00:10:08 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Fascinating.
00:10:08 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I mean, I can remember when we started talking last year and we kind of, we talked about the concept of it.
00:10:15 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
The first thing that sprung to my mind was sort of back in the mid 2000s, the Osprey body armour had this kind of like attachment on which, it basically made it like a Velociraptor from Jurassic Park because it was kind of like just it came out in this massive kind of cone shape and obviously, you know, it was meant to obviously give you the ability to kind of look and move around and stuff, but it was, it just wasn't very
00:10:37 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
kind of optimised for, carrying a Bergen, for carrying, kind of anything, radio, radio cables or anything like that.
00:10:46 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
It just kind of got in the way of everything.
00:10:47 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So pretty much everyone just used to ditch it and, it was like, I'll take the hit, because it's, I'd rather have, my Camelbak drinking straw, my radio's uninterrupted, my this, my that, you took the personal risk of,
00:11:01 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
having to get rid of these big kind of Velociraptor, wings.
00:11:08 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So, actually, I could see directly, how does this solve a problem?
00:11:11 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
It's like it solves the problem of your, vital your vital organs, like your airway, your arteries that go obviously up in your neck, you know, your, a lot around your kind of face, your mouth, and they're all kind of vital organs.
00:11:27 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So, it solves a problem that was being wasn't being done very well.
00:11:29 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
You know, not criticizing
00:11:31 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
the Osprey designers back in the mid 2000s, because I realised it was probably an urgent operation requirement from the EFPs and IED blasts that were happening.
00:11:39 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So, but it's nice to see when something gets optimised, thought through, and said, Well, actually, we can do something better than this, and obviously you put the pieces together and saw that.
00:11:49 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah, and it's, yeah, and that was, again, I think that really falls in line perfectly with almost the following the breadcrumbs for myself of that after the light bulb moment, because I did straight away research.
00:12:02 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
neck protection and it did come up with the collar several times and the people serving wore the collar didn't like it.
00:12:10 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I think a lot of them referred to it as the dog cone that you've come out of the vet.
00:12:16 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
That's a better metaphor than the velociraptor one.
00:12:22 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah, the cone of shame as somebody call it.
00:12:27 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And so the documentation coming out of it, people were saying they couldn't go into prone position.
00:12:34 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And when you're in these conflict areas and you are then deciding to not wear it at all and still go into these zones is quite a scary thought.
00:12:45 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And do you know what?
00:12:47 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I think one of the real sort of
00:12:49 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
flash moments for me to say, look, you're actually on the right track here is a guy I used to play football with many years ago.
00:12:56 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
He served in Afghan and he was struck in the neck with a ball bearing from an IED.
00:13:04 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yes.
00:13:05 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And after I saw he was actually on the one of the remembrance remembrance shows, I believe about two years ago now.
00:13:14 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I think he was laying one of the final reefs.
00:13:18 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And his story and background story there was just, was incredible.
00:13:23 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And it was almost, as I say, it was that realization moment of saying, you're on the right track here.
00:13:30 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
He was hitting the ball in the neck with a ball bearing from an IED.
00:13:33 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
You know, there was no one was wearing any neck protection.
00:13:37 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
There's no, he wasn't wearing a collar.
00:13:38 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And it was like, wow, something needs to be done about this.
00:13:41 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And so I almost took that scenario amongst all the citations I was reading on.
00:13:47 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
on the public medical journals and all the citations.
00:13:51 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
One guy in particular, one Dr.
00:13:53 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
John Breeze, he's done some fantastic work around P&I and penetrating neck injury.
00:13:59 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I was reading through that thinking, yes, this is the path I'm on.
00:14:04 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And it was almost that reassurance piece saying like, this isn't just a crazy idea I've thought of.
00:14:10 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
This generally needs to be innovated because
00:14:13 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
post the collar, nothing has been really created since.
00:14:17 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I mean, yes, you've got these sort of modular, bolt-on, clumpy, lumpy things that go above your chest and rig, but nothing is of the idea of what I've created.
00:14:30 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So yeah, I'm very proud of finding that space.
00:14:33 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Yeah, fantastic.
00:14:36 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I can just imagine just how many people, may have benefited from having something that does, like you say, stops that penetrating neck injury from, something which is, it's just an unprotected space, isn't it?
00:14:49 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
We've obviously got body armour which covers the, you know, the heart, the vital organ, you know, obviously some of the some of the chakira as well, but actually the chakira above the body armour is still very unprotected.
00:14:59 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
You know, the next the next level of protection is obviously the helmet, which is
00:15:04 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Kevlar to deflect shrapnel and fragmentation, like you said, but there's still that kind of big, I can see there's a, you solve this problem by essentially cover up the entire, entire face and entire soldier, maybe at some point in the very far future, which would also cause some breeding challenges.
00:15:24 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Thermal loading.
00:15:26 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Claustrophobia, thermal loading, yeah, claustrophobia.
00:15:28 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I'd imagine, you know, a lot of...
00:15:32 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
dissipation of heat, like I said, thermal loading.
00:15:34 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So yeah, it's good.
00:15:36 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
It's really great to see kind of that innovative thinking behind, starting to get balance of these problems because it's not something that's going to necessarily go away in the next 10, 15, 20 years.
00:15:47 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
You know, we're still there's still going to be conflicts going on that involve human beings.
00:15:50 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
You know, maybe just be that we're further away from the battlefield and actually you wear, you know, you wear the Serpa
00:15:59 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
in an area that might get shraped on rockets or kind of shell had drones attack it.
00:16:06 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
You still need to kind of protect that critical space.
00:16:09 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah, no, exactly that.
00:16:11 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And again, I think the sort of the reassuring piece is that is some of the data that's coming out from the Ukraine war.
00:16:16 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I, obviously they are trying to keep as much data tied to their chest as possible.
00:16:24 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
They don't want to disclose too much, but the sort of the latest
00:16:28 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
sort of percentages that are coming out.
00:16:31 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
There's one particular site called Crisis Medicine.
00:16:34 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
They released something not so long ago and 22% is head and neck and that's from the FPV drone wounds.
00:16:40 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So, you know, this problem is not going away.
00:16:43 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I don't have to get that link off you and we'll agree to the show next if possible.
00:16:49 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yes, of course, yeah.
00:16:50 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Brilliant stuff.
00:16:51 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I mean, it does get me on to my next question.
00:16:53 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So,
00:16:55 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
BC Defensive began with a focus on kind of innovating protective systems.
00:17:01 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I guess the idea for obviously the SERPA came from obviously those conversations and you saw the unprotected area.
00:17:11 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I guess in terms of the problem you're trying to solve that the existing equipment didn't solve was
00:17:19 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Obviously, you did your research.
00:17:21 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Was it that period where you didn't think, okay, actually, we're, you know, there must be something, must be something to cover this problem up.
00:17:28 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
There must be somebody that's already addressing this, you know, as in the big equipment manufacturers or the, you know, the big organisations who have, who have, you know, got like big R&D departments then.
00:17:39 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
fixing it.
00:17:40 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So we're like, nobody else is solving this.
00:17:43 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
But is that a complete story?
00:17:45 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.
00:17:47 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And that was almost that standalone moment when I thought, like, there's there really is nothing within this space.
00:17:54 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It's such a niche area that it was almost just overlooked too much because
00:18:02 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
over the years, everyone's moved on to these sort of incredible modular equipment components, which are great on-off, clip-on, clip-off, or use of Velcro, whatever else.
00:18:13 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I know Velcro's not quite heavily frowned upon a lot of heavism for people.
00:18:18 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
But yeah, you know, these sort of developments.
00:18:22 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
But again, it was everything that was coming out was
00:18:25 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
sort of these clip-on protection devices that were on the bodysuit, but it was nothing of that you would pull over your head and use it as part of yourself.
00:18:37 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I think that's where the sort of innovation came of it, but also all the challenges that came around that, because yes, the closer you have fabric to your skin,
00:18:48 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
then all of the problems then start to rise after that.
00:18:52 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It wasn't quite as modular as what was being developed.
00:18:56 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So maybe that was quite a lot of the overlooking part of it.
00:19:00 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
But there's no reason why with the sort of modern fabrics and materials we have today that we can't work around those issues.
00:19:10 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
We have an abundance of materials and textiles nowadays and it's only getting better.
00:19:15 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So
00:19:17 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
for a space which is such a crucial area of literally life and death and it's just being overlooked because maybe it's not convenient or the ergonomics aren't quite right or, maybe the area of conflict within the world doesn't quite fit their narrative because they're focusing on a different part.
00:19:38 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
But, this is where we just need to have that sort of stand back moment.
00:19:42 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I guess it maybe it takes
00:19:44 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
people similar to myself who have not served and kind of have that sort of bigger picture lens to think, we can still solve this.
00:19:54 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So, I think that's just where it's drawn me to.
00:19:57 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Yeah, brilliant stuff.
00:20:00 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I mean, it does give us my next question as well in that, I guess, what are some of the biggest challenges you face when you're taking this service from idea to a tested system?
00:20:09 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I'll add that does meet NATO standards as well.
00:20:12 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
What were those challenges?
00:20:14 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah, absolutely.
00:20:15 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I've thought of this one.
00:20:17 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I'm going to call it the three, because there was a lot, there was a lot of hurdles.
00:20:22 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
But I'm going to, I'm just going to try and narrow this one down.
00:20:25 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I'm going to, I'm going to call it the three M's materials, movement and money.
00:20:29 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
They were my 3 biggest hurdles.
00:20:34 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Oh dear.
00:20:34 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah.
00:20:34 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So first of all, materials.
00:20:38 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So I get the idea.
00:20:39 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I start following the breadcrumbs online.
00:20:41 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I'm getting everything I need back to start creating and drawing and designing this thing.
00:20:49 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I am not a material scientist, so I need to go to somebody who knows about this stuff.
00:20:54 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Do you know, I dropped an e-mail to Heathcoats Fabrics, who are fairly local to me, just saying that I've got this idea.
00:21:07 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I want to produce neck protection.
00:21:10 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I don't know, could you advise me on the sort of materials?
00:21:13 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Do you know what?
00:21:16 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I've really got to be so thankful to Heathcoats because they really did give me that sort of spark to go forward.
00:21:23 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I spoke with one of the materials directors there on a Teams call, gave me half an hour of his time just to talk through what I wanted to achieve.
00:21:32 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
At this point, it was just a drawing, a design on my computer.
00:21:37 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And he turned around and said, look, I'm going to send you some materials to play with.
00:21:42 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So he said, I'm going to send you what I think would work well for you.
00:21:47 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And then you go ahead and good luck, all the best.
00:21:52 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And that was all I needed.
00:21:55 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And you know what?
00:21:56 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I'm so thankful to that because that was the first step in this area whereby someone just took a chance.
00:22:04 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Instead of saying, nice idea.
00:22:06 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I get what you're trying to do, but it's probably not for us.
00:22:10 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
He gave me the chance.
00:22:12 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
He sent me some materials that came through.
00:22:14 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I remember it arrived on these massive rolls.
00:22:21 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It's massive rolls of fabric thinking, bloody hell, what am I going to do with this?
00:22:26 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So I was just looking at it thinking, I don't know what this is.
00:22:29 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Obviously it looks great.
00:22:30 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It had the end.
00:22:32 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
MTP and it had it was these lovely aramids and and and different ballistic fabrics.
00:22:37 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I was thinking bloody.
00:22:38 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah, this is good now we've got to think about how I want to shape this and the only thing I could think of it to start with was just creating a bit of a cylindrical state shape to to just have as a basic pullover just to get the idea of sort of the fit form and function of it and
00:23:00 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah, the biggest hurdle for the material side of things is not just obtaining it, which I managed to do, which is great, but also it's like, how are you meant to work with these materials, which are designed to be structurally strong, anti-tear, anti-rip?
00:23:17 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
You need a degree of flexibility behind it.
00:23:20 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So you can't pull something over your head that has absolutely zero give.
00:23:24 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So, my first sort of crude creation, I just ended up looking like Tommy Cooper because I couldn't get it over my head.
00:23:31 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I couldn't imagine.
00:23:37 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
That.
00:23:37 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I was just thinking, I was like.
00:23:40 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Well, not only can people can't get this over their head, they can't get it off again.
00:23:44 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So, I was like, I need to go to some people who know what they're doing, and
00:23:52 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And that's where my first sort of approach to CQC, again, another close manufacturer to myself in Plymouth.
00:24:02 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And they were excellent.
00:24:04 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Honestly, I could not have asked for a better R&D team for military development.
00:24:10 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
They were fantastic.
00:24:11 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And again, I went to them with the idea of what I had, the materials and the whole time.
00:24:21 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And do you know what?
00:24:22 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I was sat there with the materials thinking, this is just not going to stretch.
00:24:26 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
But at the same time, I did have a last team snood in my hand and
00:24:32 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I kind of, I put the snood on and then I thought about the cylindrical device I had and I just looked at them and I thought, why don't put them, why don't I put them together?
00:24:43 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And somehow if we can work out the way of opening up the non-stretchable device at the bottom, I could put them both together.
00:24:51 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And what that's doing is really opening up the balance between the, not only do the soldiers just want to wear a snood anyway,
00:25:00 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So that's all they want to wear.
00:25:02 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And whether that's concealment of biometrics or warmth or concealment or debris, they're still getting that from the stood.
00:25:09 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
But the lower protection, which is the sort of the zones one and two are being protected.
00:25:14 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So that's when I went to CQC and said, I want to put these two together and I want to make it ergonomically sound.
00:25:23 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I want to have movement, breathability, lightweight.
00:25:26 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And over the course of a few months, we went back and forth to try and create the perfect device.
00:25:32 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And that's where the second M of this approach comes to movement.
00:25:36 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And it was really narrowing down these perfect materials because we wanted the upper to be breathable.
00:25:43 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
That's your first stage.
00:25:45 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
We want it light, breathable, but still, you know, you can maintain warmth if you need to in the colder climates.
00:25:52 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And
00:25:54 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And so that's where it really came about.
00:25:56 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I think one of the one of the one of the key sort of educational points of view was I was watching hours and hours of YouTube footage from the Ukraine war.
00:26:08 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
There's a really great channel there called United 24.
00:26:13 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And what they do is they basically strap GoPros to their rifles or wherever they are on their helmets.
00:26:18 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And
00:26:19 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
and video the whole footage of their combat scenes.
00:26:23 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I was listening intently and watching what they were doing and taking it all in.
00:26:27 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I really wanted to understand about their movements and how to keep it light, but also the hearing side of things.
00:26:34 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And so that was the real sort of the narrowing down to really designing it right for that.
00:26:41 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And then, so yeah, super happy with how it came out from CQC.
00:26:48 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Yeah.
00:26:49 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
And then you said the last M.
00:26:50 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Yes.
00:26:51 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Money.
00:26:52 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah.
00:26:53 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Oh, there isn't enough of it, is there, Chris?
00:26:56 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Oh, yeah.
00:26:56 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I was going to say, in terms of R&D, I completely empathise when it comes to kind of R&D because you're essentially putting money into something, but there's no visible runway, is there?
00:27:05 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Because it's like this thing doesn't exist.
00:27:07 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I am investing personal funds or have you funded it to make this, you know, thing
00:27:13 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
which will be a benefit beneficial to somebody else, at the end of it.
00:27:17 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So, how was the money aspect solved or not solved?
00:27:22 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Well, and I think that's largely down to why the journey's been taking so long.
00:27:28 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I think it's because I have just been using my full-time role to pay for this over the over the years and bit by bit, and whether it's paying for the R&D or paying for a little bit more materials or then later on it
00:27:44 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
it's paying for the testing side of things.
00:27:48 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So, I mean, that was, it was a really great moment.
00:27:53 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And again, I say that the money side, that's was the stopper.
00:27:58 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I know loads of people would say, well, why don't you just go out and get a loan?
00:28:00 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Well, it's really because I was still in this space of not 100% reassurance of what I'm actually doing.
00:28:08 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
You know, I'm creating this product and
00:28:11 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I'm getting loads of feedback from everyone I'm reaching out to, whether they're serving or in the industry, going, I like it.
00:28:18 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It's a good idea.
00:28:19 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And, you know, every response I've ever had, the first line they always say goes, interesting.
00:28:24 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
You know, they say, oh, interesting.
00:28:26 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
But they never, it never goes much further than that.
00:28:29 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So that was a little bit of a reassurance piece.
00:28:30 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
They're like, am I actually on the right?
00:28:32 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I know deep down, I know I'm on the right path, but, you know, so I'm putting my own money into this.
00:28:37 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I'm just,
00:28:38 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
gradually started chipping away of it.
00:28:40 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And before I know it, I've got this product ready for market, thinking, goodness, I could really do some great things here for soldiers and say, potentially save some lives here.
00:28:51 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I think another really reassurance piece of that was achieving the V50 of the STANAG 2920.
00:29:02 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I reached out to Precision Ballistics in Swindon.
00:29:06 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Again, these guys, I'm so thankful for, because they really did give me a huge crash course into what to expect, the way they test, and they were super patient with me trying to understand about how to...
00:29:26 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
essentially create a legitimate product here.
00:29:29 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
If we want to test it, we need to do it properly and this is what you need to do.
00:29:31 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And so I really made sure that I could meet those standards from CQC who created this final design for me, which I was really happy with.
00:29:42 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And after I sent it to Precision Ballistics to say, look, go ahead and test, I'm ready to go.
00:29:49 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So they tested.
00:29:51 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
against two types of frag.
00:29:52 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So it was a 0.35 gram and a 1.1 gram.
00:29:56 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And they were testing with the sort of the chisel nose steel bits of frag from one of their guns.
00:30:05 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And yeah, it came back with such an over-expected result from the materials that had originally been given.
00:30:15 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
But the way I put them together and layered them,
00:30:19 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It just, it really gave me again that sort of thumbed up to say, you're on the right path here.
00:30:24 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
You've got something good.
00:30:26 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And after receiving the certificate from the guys to say, yeah, we've done the testing, it's all legit.
00:30:34 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And, but I'm waiting to come back to them because there's more tests I want to do.
00:30:39 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I want to be able to do this sort of,
00:30:41 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
the cold water and the freezing tests with them, that would be a really great experience to have.
00:30:47 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And hopefully I can go up and actually meet the guys and be there with when it's being tested as well.
00:30:51 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So that'll be a great trip.
00:30:54 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
But I would honestly urge anyone, anyone out there who has an idea that's kind of rolling with it, they're not too sure, just please reach out to these guys in the industry because
00:31:04 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
the defence industry is more accommodating than you can imagine.
00:31:08 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
People are out there who do want you to achieve.
00:31:11 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And if they see a product they like or an idea, if they're enthusiastic about it, they will help you get there.
00:31:18 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I think that's what I've really witnessed along the way.
00:31:20 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And okay, sometimes companies and people can't carry you for the whole journey.
00:31:25 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
That's not expected.
00:31:26 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
If they can just help you on that particular chapter until you're ready to go to the next, great.
00:31:32 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Take it, you know,
00:31:34 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
really be appreciative of their time and efforts and work and then you can go on to your next one.
00:31:39 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I think that's what I've done from the moment I kind of spoke with the Heathcoats to CQC to Precision Ballistics and these are sort of my stepping stones as I've gone forward.
00:31:49 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So it has been a great journey, a long journey, but it's really been great.
00:31:55 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Yeah, fascinating.
00:31:56 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
You said something there which really made me laugh, and you said the first people's first response is interesting.
00:32:02 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
We talked with a lot of VCs who had the very same response, and when we kind of we have a lot of these cool clients and we kind of share them with our VC, you know, VC friends and partners and stuff, and the first thing they say is interesting, and it's like, is that good interesting?
00:32:15 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Bad interesting?
00:32:16 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
It's like, yeah, I know.
00:32:17 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
And then it's like their poker faces are just like incredible.
00:32:20 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I'm like.
00:32:22 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Right.
00:32:23 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
That's exactly it.
00:32:24 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Exactly right.
00:32:25 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And it is just like, interesting.
00:32:27 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It's like, now which way is this going to go?
00:32:31 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It's like, yeah.
00:32:32 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So I'd say, you know, after all the testing and all that sort of the real gritty stuff behind it, was like, okay, I've got a product.
00:32:44 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Now let's really place it into the real world.
00:32:47 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And that's where things started to get quite exciting.
00:32:52 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Yeah.
00:32:52 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I mean, from my perspective, it's obvious that this is just the start of a bigger journey because you can see, obviously with the geopolitics of the last six months, for example, the interest in the high north, and therefore an Arctic cold weather version will be needed, which will probably integrate some kind of breathing apparatus in terms of the big kind of
00:33:18 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
thing which you see on kind of Arctic.
00:33:20 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
The anti-condensation.
00:33:22 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Yeah, the anti-condensation thing.
00:33:26 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
And then also, police, firearms officers, those that work in, kind of like those kind of those real kinetic threat areas and close protection.
00:33:37 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I can, imagine we'll be interested in this because obviously it's a, you know, a way of concealing identity.
00:33:43 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
And I was like,
00:33:45 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
There's, I think, probably a load of industries actually be interested in this kind of technology, not just for obviously the face and the neck, but one of the conventional places that's not protected very well on soldiers is the is obviously the side panels.
00:33:59 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I'll have to illustrate this for the audio listeners here, but obviously the side panels between the between the plates, this
00:34:09 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
area which can be very vulnerable to blast injuries, to shrapnel, that sort of stuff, but which still can cause obviously lung, heart, the vital organ space.
00:34:19 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
It's not traditionally protected, is it?
00:34:20 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Perhaps there's a space here for your technology to fit in with technical clothing that actually gives an extra layer of protection to this side panel that's
00:34:31 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
is more vulnerable.
00:34:33 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
We know that we've the military is trying to solve it with various kind of extra plates that increase that thermal loading, like you said before, and it's not something that necessarily does fulfils a good function other than just being, you know, a Kevlar block between you and, or between the body and, you know, something else on the outside.
00:34:50 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So, yeah, that's exactly right.
00:34:52 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I think, you know, and I'm sure there's, you know, these multi-billion companies who are
00:35:00 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
actively researching this.
00:35:01 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I don't doubt that.
00:35:03 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
But I mean, from my own experiences and yours, you would very well know when it comes to the sport industry, the movement and the ergonomics of kit is super important, especially when we're endurance running, right?
00:35:17 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
You know, we are out running for hours and hours and hours.
00:35:22 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
If you have a kit breakdown, you know all about it.
00:35:25 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And it's no different from soldiers serving.
00:35:28 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I think that's where the real crossover could be really important is if we really take the sort of the biological framework of movement, the biomechanics of sports and industry wearers, and it's like, right, let's just see how we can kind of navigate that to a military dynamic.
00:35:50 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
You know, you've got these
00:35:51 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
these incredible fabrics for breathability and wicking and all of that good stuff.
00:35:58 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It's like, right, let's just try and introduce that to a military world.
00:36:01 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I'm sure people out there are doing some incredible research, but that's what kind of, that I find quite alluring to me is the fact that, you know, my own running and sport background is that I know when kit is horrible to run in and it's like, you know, how do we just,
00:36:19 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Increase a little bit of protection by that, and that's where it comes about, where I mentioned about finding the balance between protection and ergonomics.
00:36:28 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It's really finding that sweet spot, and sometimes you have to...
00:36:32 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
give a little bit less to work on the other, whether, certainly for the neck side of things, you can't heavily bulk it out.
00:36:38 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And it's like what we're trying to achieve is not necessarily stop bullets to the neck.
00:36:42 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
That's just not going to happen.
00:36:43 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
But if we can mitigate against frag and shrapnel, yes, that's doable.
00:36:47 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Let's go and do that.
00:36:49 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Let's achieve that.
00:36:49 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So yeah, it is exactly that.
00:36:53 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Yeah, and I think particularly with the kind of the era where we're living in the moment where
00:36:59 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I guess there's a growing threat from fragmentation, shrapnel, munition blasts, isn't there, from when you think of how, excuse me, how drones have been weaponized over the last sort of 10 years or so from the later Iraq Mosul days to what we're seeing in Ukraine now is actually is I guess the person with the rifle is now arguably less
00:37:22 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
the main risk than actually is uncrewed vehicles which will come and deliver some kind of fragmentation payload, be that like a grenade or a suicide drone like the Shahad, for example.
00:37:35 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So I guess, from my perspective, I can see a growing need for protection from these, blasts and fragmentation injuries.
00:37:46 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Have you seen much kind of feedback from the military which kind of corroborates, disagrees with that, or
00:37:53 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
acknowledges it.
00:37:55 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Absolutely.
00:37:55 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So to the end of last year, I think it was around November time, end of October, November, I actually was able to send a few samples up to ATU in Warminster.
00:38:09 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So they conducted their sort of pre-emptive HFI trials.
00:38:14 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I think there was about three of three soldiers who wore
00:38:21 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
the NetGaiter they conducted all of their sort of pre-emptive tests with donning and movement and stowing and then their active work as well and they didn't I don't think they took it on a on an extensive trial but they certainly did all the necessary movements with it with the whole kit and I'd imagine it would have been their Vertus kit and
00:38:51 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
The feedback and the responses from the whole list of activities undertaken was fantastic.
00:38:59 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I was, that was, aside from my sort of...
00:39:04 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
my ballistic lab certificate, the response from HFI was just a fantastic moment.
00:39:09 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I think I read it through about 10 times because I was just so, happy with the results.
00:39:14 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I'm almost like shouting at my screen going, yes, I knew it.
00:39:18 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I knew this would be this good.
00:39:20 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So if we can make a soldier
00:39:24 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
happy and content with what he's wearing with no burden and it's just light.
00:39:29 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And it's like, yes, it works.
00:39:31 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It doesn't **** him off.
00:39:32 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Do you know what I mean?
00:39:33 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Like, let's just get on with it.
00:39:35 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So yeah, I was a really proud burden of myself.
00:39:37 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So yeah, the HFI trials was fantastic and the feedback from it was brilliant.
00:39:42 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I'm very proud of that.
00:39:44 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Yeah, fantastic.
00:39:45 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I can just totally imagine as well when you get that, you know, it's almost like proof of
00:39:49 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I've invested, money, reputation, time, effort, relationships, literally all of the things that go into following this idea from, the earliest moment for you to actually getting it in somebody's hands and especially soldiers as well.
00:40:05 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
We're probably the most critical customers out of all markets as well.
00:40:10 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
It's because if something's bad, then...
00:40:12 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It doesn't get worn.
00:40:15 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Exactly, it's bad, it's bad, but there's a funny kind of saying, it's like when soldiers or marines or sailors, air crew, stop complaining, that's when things are really bad because, it's generally they'll find something to complain about, every time.
00:40:29 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So if you're getting feedback that's like, oh, this is actually pretty good, or anything that's, positive to neutral, actually, I consider a success.
00:40:38 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah, exactly, right.
00:40:42 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Fantastic stuff.
00:40:43 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I mean, just going to the penultimate question, how do you see militaries thinking about personal protective equipment over the coming decade?
00:40:51 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I mean, you know, as we've got like this uncrewed vehicles, uncrewed systems coming into play more, you know, low-cost loitering munitions, low-cost kind of long-range strike, that sort of stuff.
00:41:03 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
How do you how do you think militaries now are thinking about this sort of stuff?
00:41:09 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Because as we've seen over the Middle East, there's
00:41:12 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
there's a lot of countries surrounding, surrounding around, for example, that are seeing a lot of low-cost strikes, which are something that governments, countries, militaries will have to start mitigating.
00:41:25 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah, I, yeah, it's a really, really great question, because it's almost...
00:41:32 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It is just going to be what I feel is there is going to be the next level of this industry is really going to be working with the smart fabrics.
00:41:40 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I think that's going to be such an interesting one to watch, a really great space, because that is the that that crossover between your your biological sort of data working with textiles and fabric.
00:41:55 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And to me, that's really exciting.
00:41:58 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I won't.
00:42:00 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I wouldn't give anything away just yet, but I have been researching myself to create a device of that nature.
00:42:08 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And again, I'm on the right track and it's really exciting.
00:42:12 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I think this is where we're going to be going.
00:42:13 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And we really need to recognize that sort of that human data output.
00:42:18 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And again, it comes back to the sort of the sporting environment.
00:42:22 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
You know, if you're training for an ultra and you're
00:42:24 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
you have to get every bit right in regards to your nutrition and your salts and every level of that degree and body function and almost to correlate that to how do fabrics maybe respond to that, how do fabrics pick up on these working mechanisms and adapt to
00:42:46 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
maybe environmental issues.
00:42:48 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I think that's going to be the space that we're going to be working in.
00:42:51 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I'm really excited.
00:42:53 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Again, I'm a long way off because firstly, I'm not a scientist.
00:42:57 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And secondly, I'm not within the space of it.
00:43:01 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I'm doing this really through a great passion of mine more than anything, because it really is, as I said, it's alluring to be part of and it's a great project.
00:43:11 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So if anyone out there is working with this smart projects, give me a shout.
00:43:16 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I'll be loved.
00:43:17 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I'll be really fascinated to understand how this all works.
00:43:20 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And yeah, it's going to be a good space.
00:43:24 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Yeah, but we'll put the we'll put the link to your website in the show notes and obviously where to find you on LinkedIn and stuff.
00:43:30 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So yeah, to get in touch for that space.
00:43:33 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
And then just to end on that difficult question as always, what's next to BC Defensive and obviously.
00:43:44 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
As everything, it is really just finding that real route to market, which I'm almost there.
00:43:54 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I'm in conversations with a very good UK manufacturer.
00:44:02 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So they have the supply routes and the supply chains available and set up.
00:44:07 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
They have all the accreditations.
00:44:09 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And again, I think that's probably one of the hurdles.
00:44:10 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
If we go back to one of the blockers, which is, I'm A standalone company that doesn't have the accreditations and regulations behind it, but haven't got the trading certificates or the cyber pluses or JOS cards or anything of this nature or the CE accreditations on the product.
00:44:28 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So I literally just have a product that is certified ready to go, but without the business backing and
00:44:36 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I guess it's gone a little bit **** about face in that sense of how I've started.
00:44:41 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
But here I am.
00:44:42 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I'm still really optimistic about the product.
00:44:45 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And recently, just briefly going back to sort of the testing element of it.
00:44:52 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And after the HFI trials, I managed to have the garment sent out to Ukraine to be tested for a month in active service out there.
00:45:04 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And
00:45:06 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
the Ukrainian army and the partner forces basically turned around and said, we want this yesterday.
00:45:11 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Again, that was the, that was the sort of realization to say, good, okay, let's, how do we get this in motion?
00:45:21 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I think that's, again, where the sort of the funding element comes from it.
00:45:25 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I had some very good conversations yesterday with the, with Innovate UK.
00:45:31 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah.
00:45:31 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So I had some great conversations yesterday.
00:45:33 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So I'm just trying to find a path to negotiate some sort of funding mechanism to get this into market through there.
00:45:39 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Of course, there's a lot of sort of pauses at the moment regard to funding.
00:45:45 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
They are going to wait until April.
00:45:47 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So they're going to wait until next month before they can release the next set of funding and kind of pick who they want to be able to fund.
00:45:53 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So I'd like to put a really good case forward and be on the end of that.
00:45:57 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
But
00:45:59 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
the case studies are building and as for what's next, again, more testing.
00:46:05 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
I actually had the product sent out to, with a marine out to the Arctic, for Arctic exercises in Norway for three months.
00:46:13 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Brilliant.
00:46:14 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah, so that goes with the sort of the kit testing, the comms, the full setup and the cold weather exposure.
00:46:20 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So I know I can kind of do the job with the product in the sort of these medium climates of
00:46:27 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
whether we're working sort of UK based, it works there, whether it's the Baltic regions and whether we're, right up at the Arctic, this product still works and just to be able to adapt it into these environments.
00:46:39 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And my next sites, again, it's, well, I'm going to have to look towards the Middle East and start evolving the product into how we can start adapting these hot climates and how do you have that protection around your neck without burning up.
00:46:56 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And
00:46:57 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
These are the sort of, these are the pain sticking points that I'm really, really passionate about trying to find the answers for.
00:47:04 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Fantastic, Zev.
00:47:05 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
What a great place to end it there.
00:47:06 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Mark, thank you so much for giving up your time to talk us through BC Defensive and the SERPAP.
00:47:13 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Sounds absolutely fascinating.
00:47:14 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
I can see so many places where this kind of innovation is sorely needed, like you say yesterday.
00:47:20 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
So yeah, thanks so much for giving up your time to talk us through it.
00:47:23 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
Yeah, thanks, Chris.
00:47:24 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
It's always great to meet you.
00:47:26 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And again, from our first meeting in DSEI, I knew that we would speak again.
00:47:30 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
So thank you for hunting me down and pouncing on me to get this out there and appreciate you and your time.
00:47:37 Mark Smith, Founder of BCE Defensive and creator of the NG-Serpa
And I wish you guys all the best.
00:47:41 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Brilliant, sir.
00:47:41 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
Cheers.
00:47:44 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
It was really great talking to Mark about BC Defensive's journey and future.
00:47:47 Chris Shirley MA FRGS, Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at Hiatus.Digital, website design and branding for defence
If you want to find out more about their work, check out the show notes below and we'll see you next time.
